Why God Allows Christians to Suffer August 12, 2008
Posted by JP in Discussion, Faith, Uncategorized.trackback
Never forget that God is in control of all the circumstances that surround a believer’s life. God is in control of your life, and involved in all the details.Your suffering has not escaped His notice. Your situation has not somehow been buried in His inbox. He is intimately aware of everything going on in your world, and no detail is too small to escape His attention. The word “oops” is not in God’s vocabulary.
And as we can so clearly see from the book of Job, the devil can do nothing in the life of the believer without the express permission of God.
Okay, you say, but if He’s in control, why does He allow these hurtful things to happen to me and to people I love?
1. Suffering makes us strong
The apostle James tells us:
“When all kinds of trials and temptations crowd into your lives, my brothers, don’t treat them as intruders, but as friends. Realize that they come to test your faith and to produce in you the quality of endurance. . . . you will find you have become men of mature character, men of integrity, with no weak spots.” (James 1:2-4 phillips)
God allows hardship in our life so that our beliefs will become more real to us, and less theory. We can start living out our faith-life in the real world.
I’m reminded of all the people you see driving SUVs. Most of these fancy rigs have 4×4 capabilities. Some guys take it a notch above that, putting lifts in their rigs, buying those big gnarly tires, and mounting huge lights on top.
And what do they do with these powerful vehicles? They brag to their buddies, and say, “Yeah, just look at this thing. Look at what it can do. I could drive this baby up the side of a building.”
“Well,” someone might ask, “do you want to go out in the dirt?”
“Are you kidding? Do you know how much I paid for this thing? No way! In fact, I was just on the way to the car wash.”
So they never want to actually use that vehicle for its intended purpose?what it was actually designed to do.
We can be that way with our beliefs. I can imagine God saying, “You know, you have a lot of really great beliefs. You talk about them all the time. I think it’s time you started putting some of them into practice. You talk about how you trust Me. You talk about how you believe I can provide for your every need. Let Me put you in a situation where you have no other resources and really have to trust Me for that provision.”
You see, God can allow these hardships and trials and shortfalls in our lives so that we will exercise our faith muscles, and step out on trust alone. We need to transfer our faith from the realm of theory to reality.
2. Suffering can bring God glory
Any fool can be happy and peaceful when the sun shines down from a blue and cloudless sky. But when those qualities shine out from the midst of a dark and destructive storm, that’s another matter entirely.
That, in essence, was the challenge Satan laid before God. “Job follows You because You have blessed him in every way, but if those things were taken away, it would be a different story. He would curse You.”
In order to show the falsehood of Satan’s argument?and to strengthen Job’s faith at the same time?God allowed these multiple tragedies to crash into Job’s life.
The result? Job not only refused to curse God, he actually blessed Him. What a rebuke to the enemy! What a witness to the world.
It is a powerful testimony when a believer can praise God while suffering. Remember the story of Paul and Silas, arrested for preaching the gospel in the city of Philippi? The Bible tells us that the jailer had them stripped and flogged. Then they were put in a dungeon, where their feet were fastened in stocks.
How did they respond? Here’s what the Bible says:
“But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them.” (Acts 16:25 nkjv)
That word “listened” could be translated as listened with great interest. Why? Because they had never heard anybody sing praises to God in such a place. And that’s about the time the Lord sent an earthquake:
“At once the prison doors flew open, and everybody’s chains came loose. The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped. But Paul shouted, “Don’t harm yourself! We are all here!” (Acts 16:26-28 niv)
The jailer responded by saying, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” In effect, he was saying, “I’ve been watching you guys. I’ve seen how you have taken such terrible punishment without cursing. I’ve seen how you can worship in the worst circumstances, and how you could have escaped but didn’t. All I can say is, whatever you have, I want it.”
Your circumstances may not be as dire as those of Paul and Silas. But people are watching you. If you’re in the midst of a hardship or a difficulty, they’re watching to see if you will really practice what you preach, and live out what you proclaim. The way you handle suffering in your life can bring great glory to God.
Paul the apostle also suffered from an unnamed “thorn in the flesh.” No one really knows what it was, but he spoke of it in his letter to the Corinthian church, and said that he had asked the Lord on three separate occasions to remove it.
But God said no. Even though God had done miracles through Paul, bringing healing to others, He chose not to bring that healing in the life of His loyal servant in this particular situation.
When Paul asked why, God gave him this answer: “My gracious favor is all you need. My power works best in your weakness” (2 Corinthians 12:9 nlt).
Was Paul discouraged by this answer? It sure doesn’t sound like it! He goes on to say, “So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may work through me. Since I know it is all for Christ’s good, I am quite content with my weaknesses and with insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong” (vv. 9-10).
So God can be glorified through your weakness. His light and power can shine through the chips, cracks, and cracks in your life, drawing others to Himself.
So, if it is how you say it is..
1. If it is true that God takes pleasure in and wills his suffering children to be so, then wouldn’t it be fighting God’s will for one believer to try and alleviate the suffering of another?
2. If God wills they should suffer and be the better for it, then is it the right thing to help them suffer, so they can be in his will and grow?
3. Why not to both questions?
Firstly, I would question your idea that God wills suffering as opposed to allowing suffering. Will denotes determination and causality and I wouldn’t suggest that such is the case. Things happen, and God does allow things to happen which is not the same as asserting that God causes those things to happen.
Secondly, your questions deny the idea that the good purposes of God are not included in the idea of a believer alleviating that suffering, but that in fact His purposes are only included in the idea of suffering.
It is a fallen and cursed world that we live in. We all “suffer” in it.
Christians are still humans in a sinful world who are not isloated or insulated whilst living in it.
For the saved ( those redeemed by the BLOOD OF JESUS ) there will be
a NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH which is pure and blessed by GOD for our future living. There will be none of the negatives that we experience in this current cursed world.
At last there will be complete PEACE , JOY, AND REST.
FOREVER
JESUS Bless you,
dave :’>
Revjp,
O.K. So then, is it your position that God does not will anyone to suffer? (Just asking for clarity’s sake.)
And if so, then would one believer helping, or lending a hand in causing another to suffer for their own groweth be contrary to God’s will, in your opinion?
Dave,
Nice picture you’ve painted. Have you seen this new world you have spoken of? Is it anything like Huxley’s new world? What I am asking is, do you have “any” reason, other than what you think you read in the bible, to believe what you said?
You do realize that book has a talking snake and donkey in it, right? Have you ever met either one of those?
“Revjp,
O.K. So then, is it your position that God does not will anyone to suffer?
Actually, I didn’t state any position. You stated that God wills people to suffer and I questioned that assertion. It would be incumbent upon you to demonstrate scripturally that such is the case.
Scripture tells us that the Lord has many purposes for the pain we experience. One is to develop personal righteousness in us. Desiring that we walk in holiness before Him, God utilizes discipline to direct us away from ungodliness and to increase our fruitfulness. He will use difficult people and circumstances to prune away any “deadwood”—attitudes, behaviors, and relationships that do not fit a child of God (Eph. 4:25, 29, 31). While such “pruning” is not a pleasant experience, it can effectively train us to lead godly lives.
God also uses suffering to manifest the life of Christ in us. For that to happen, we must learn to depend on Him for both our work and our words. If circumstances did not press in upon us, we would probably go our own way. But we are to be like Jesus, who relied on His Father no matter how easy or hard life became. As Christ’s ambassadors, we are to be living examples of His character. This may mean forgiving our enemies, bearing our burdens with patience, or finding joy in the midst of sorrow, just as He did. Our witness will not be a perfect one, but we should display a growing “family resemblance.”
Life is full of trouble. But in the hands of a loving God, our suffering is being used for His eternal purposes
I really enjoyed your last post Mr. Revjp. Though I find it to be a little bit… naive, if I may take the liberty to say to. But I would like to ask you about your post before the 6th one.
You said,
“You stated that God wills people to suffer and I questioned that assertion. It would be incumbent upon you to demonstrate scripturally that such is the case.”
Actually all I did was ask you three questions. I did not state anything as fact, or even theory. I am no bible scholar that is for sure, so I am probably not the person to ask for a scriptural reference. But i will give it a shot….
Let’s take Jonah. If i remember the story correctly, he ran from what God wanted him to do. Even though that is the case, it would seem that God willed him to suffer in the whale’s belly, as long as God got what He wanted out of it.
Then, there is Pharaoh and the rest of Egypt. From reading the story, it looks like God said He would harden Pharaoh’s heart, which seemed to have happened and Pharoah suffered for it by losing his wealth, having his nation destroyed, and lastly losing the life of his first born son. It would be hard to explain, if one tried to, how God did not will for Pharaoh and the rest of Egypt to suffer when God said He would cause those things to show His power throughout the earth.
And there is, if memory serves me correctly something else about no punishment seems good, but God chastises the son He loves or something like that. Are you familar with that verse of scripture?
It sounds like God does will for people to suffer. If He did not, then why does He place them here, trapped in ignorance, knowing they have no way out but death, then cast them into hell if they do not please Him, when most don’t even know what He wants from them?
And if I may bother you with one more question that relates to your last post…
When you speak of “pruning”, and when you said God uses difficult people to make one a better person or whatever. (I know that is not your exact words, but it is close enough to get the point across.) To cut away the “deadwood”, as you call it.
The if that is the case, and please help me with this as I am trying to understand it in sincerity. If one believer, we will call them believer # saw another believer(*) was not livng up to what # thought was a biblical standard, or even if # saw a little “deadwood” in the life of *, would it be the right thing for # to cause * to suffer to lose the deadwood and grow in the relationship with God that # thinks * should have, or that # thinks any who claim to believe in God should have? Simply put this is a hard question to ask with the accuracy in understanding that I wish for it to be received in.
So, let me simplify it. And this is all I really wish to know about this conversation….
Does one believer have the scriptural right to cause another to suffer and help them to suffer because they think the other person needs it for their own good? Like an extremely obese person for instance.(If we can put it in worldly terms)
Would it be acceptable for a skinny person to lock fatty up for a few months, feeding them sparsely, so they would lose weight and be more healthy?
Is there any thing in the bible that allows one person to cause another to suffer to fit their own personal idea of what the bible says would make them a better person?
Thanks
A lot to discuss.
Jonah and the Pharaoh, and one believer causing intentional suffering on another….
Firstly let us address the facts; Has God caused some suffering in the past? Absolutely.
No one, certainly not I, has suggested that God has not done so. However, when He has done so He has done so for specifically stated reasons that facilitate His good purposes.
The question hanging in the air is where you stated: “O.K. So then, is it your position that God does not will anyone to suffer?’
I simply pointed out that I did not state that as my position and I drew a distinction between God allowing suffering and God willing suffering.
You further stated:
“It sounds like God does will for people to suffer. If He did not, then why does He place them here, trapped in ignorance, knowing they have no way out but death, then cast them into hell if they do not please Him, when most don’t even know what He wants from them?”
Let us look at the facts. God did not ‘place them here, trapped in ignorance’. God created man perfectly suited to commune with Him. Man sinned and mankind fell from grace, our existence beyond that is a natural extension of that fall. God does not cast people into hell either. Eternal separation from Him is a result of our sin nature, we are dead to him from our birth, thus an eternity separate from Him is our birthright.
Ignorance is not an issue as God has given us His Word and has provided salvation for us through the life, death, and resurrection of His Son. Eternity with Him is not guess work, and the bible which one may choose to believe or not tells us all we need to know in that regard.
Additionally; pleasing Him isn’t an issue at all. Salvation is not a aspect of pleasing Him, or doing good, or any other such idea. Salvation is a gift of grace, through faith.
Now then, for your questions about believer # and believer *:
What is it that makes you think of intentional cause when speaking of causing suffering? One can cause pain, or suffering unintentionally and that is the real issue. If something someone does, intentionally or not, causes me to suffer, that is a tool for me to use to ‘prune’ my own deadwood, to manifest the example of Christ in my own life. Not by what they did or didn’t do to me, but by the way I deal with it, learn from it, grow from it – or not.
Thank you Revjp fr that post. If I may bother you once more, there are only a very few matters in it I wish to dig further into.
You said,
“God created man perfectly suited to commune with Him. Man sinned and mankind fell from grace, our existence beyond that is a natural extension of that fall. God does not cast people into hell either. Eternal separation from Him is a result of our sin nature, we are dead to him from our birth, thus an eternity separate from Him is our birthright.”
I hope I am not reading what you said here correctly. Is it that God has had no control over who has been born since the fall of mankind?
Revjp said,
“Ignorance is not an issue as God has given us His Word and has provided salvation for us through the life, death, and resurrection of His Son. Eternity with Him is not guess work, and the bible which one may choose to believe or not tells us all we need to know in that regard.”
I admire your ability to believe what a book says. I am sure it is comforting to you. I know this is a personal question, but, if I may ask you, did you make a decision to believe the bible or is it something out of your control, so to speak? Perhaps the ability comes from the faith you spoke of. Do you ever worry about being wrong? How can anyone know for sure what is correct? There are so many choices in life, so many different “holy books” that give different ways to heaven and many that say they are the only way.
To tell the truth, I have found that when they are prodded somewhat, most can’t even tell me what they think heaven is or
how they know it is real outside of the literature they read.
Revjp said,
“Now then, for your questions about believer # and believer *:
What is it that makes you think of intentional cause when speaking of causing suffering?”
Perhaps it is a personal situation I am in, but I feel that story is probably not constructive to the conversation. But would it be wrong for say…
Me or anyone to cause another person suffering if I/they know/knew it is for the good of the other, even if it is unpleasant for the other person?
Revjp said,
“One can cause pain, or suffering unintentionally and that is the real issue. If something someone does, intentionally or not, causes me to suffer, that is a tool for me to use to ‘prune’ my own deadwood, to manifest the example of Christ in my own life. Not by what they did or didn’t do to me, but by the way I deal with it, learn from it, grow from it – or not.”
So, if the one who suffered learned from the suffering, does it acquit the one who caused her/him harm? And if the situation’s outcome is the opposite and the action only harms the person someone was actually trying to help, does that make the offense more despicable?
Thank you for your patience thus far. This is of real interest to me.
“I hope I am not reading what you said here correctly. Is it that God has had no control over who has been born since the fall of mankind?”
Not really sure how you can derive that question from what I stated. God created man, mankind sinned and thus his progeny is no longer that perfect creation. Nothing in what I just stated, or stated earlier has any implication on whether or not God has, or has not, control over anything.
did you make a decision to believe the bible or is it something out of your control, so to speak? Perhaps the ability comes from the faith you spoke of.
My faith is well reasoned, born of countless hours of doubt, disbelief, study, questioning, and prayer.
Do you ever worry about being wrong?
Not really. What do I have to loose if I am wrong in my faith? A lifetime of love, support, joy, and peace? I guess I could live with that.
How can anyone know for sure what is correct? There are so many choices in life, so many different “holy books” that give different ways to heaven and many that say they are the only way.
faith and reason.
To tell the truth, I have found that when they are prodded somewhat, most can’t even tell me what they think heaven is or how they know it is real outside of the literature they read.
So? I know only 1 thing for sure beyond the here and now: there are two possible eternities; One eternity in the presence of the One True Almighty God, and one eternity separated from Him. To me an eternity separated from Him would be everlasting torment.
Perhaps it is a personal situation I am in, but I feel that story is probably not constructive to the conversation. But would it be wrong for say…
Me or anyone to cause another person suffering if I/they know/knew it is for the good of the other, even if it is unpleasant for the other person?
I cannot respond to this as have no idea what type of suffering one could cause another for their own good.
So, if the one who suffered learned from the suffering, does it acquit the one who caused her/him harm? And if the situation’s outcome is the opposite and the action only harms the person someone was actually trying to help, does that make the offense more despicable?
Acquit them from what exactly?
I think we have a diametric paradigm in this discussion. Scripture, faith, and His grace in this situation deals with one’s own actions and reactions, not someone else’s actions. My bible does not tell me about who to blame, or why, concerning what they do or don’t do – it tells me about what I am to do, or not do. How I am to act or react. How God’s love and grace is evidenced through me and my actions. It is a personal, internal manifestation of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Religion teaches otherwise. It teaches how to control and direct the actions of others, how to judge and condemn another’s actions and reactions. I personally have no time, or patience for such nonsense. God is concerned with me, as far as I am concerned, I am to focus on what He wants from me in my life for His purposes.
Revjp says,
“My faith is well reasoned, born of countless hours of doubt, disbelief, study, questioning, and prayer.”
Is faith then, a work of man? Dependent upon man’s efforts in study and prayer ect. ect.?
You said,
“My bible does not tell me about who to blame, or why, concerning what they do or don’t do – it tells me about what I am to do, or not do. How I am to act or react. How God’s love and grace is evidenced through me and my actions. It is a personal, internal manifestation of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.”
This is a good statement and with it I may be able to more clearly show what I mean, as I feel I have not explained myself clearly as of yet.
I am not asking about one to blame or why. I am asking…
Suppose you knew something about someone. And they really needed your help but they did not know it. But you did. And suppose you could not persuade them that they need your help.
Do you in love do what you must, knowing they may well hate you for it, if it saves them from destroying themselves?
Like what if one has a friend who thought his latest offer was a golden and much coveted oppurtunity. But the one knew a secret and from that knew it was going to turn out bad if he could not get his friend to reconsider his decision. And when he tried, his friend would not listen, because he could ’see’ no danger. If the friend who could tell his buddy was making a mistake could somehow, “throw a wrench in the gears” so to speak, should he do so even though he knows his friend would not understand and may not forgive him. Especially if the ‘gears’ are messed up before the ‘victim’ could see why his friend did what he did. As in perhaps, waiting till the guy knew may be too late.
Wouldn’t true love sacrifice the friendship to save the friend?
Sincerely.
“Is faith then, a work of man? Dependent upon man’s efforts in study and prayer ect. ect.?
Certainly not. Faith is strengthened by knowledge, knowledge of God and the things of God. We are told in scripture to “love your God with all your heart, body, soul, and mind”
Blind faith is not a requirement, nor is it a preference.
As for the rest of your comment. One would simply need to speak the truth in love, and let the friend do that which he may.