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fides qua creditur vs. fides quae creditur January 16, 2007

Posted by JP in Uncategorized.

What then is the difference between ‘the faith by which it is believed’, and ‘the faith which is believed’?

I challenge the faithful to view that very thing, their ‘faith’, and determine what it is exactly is going on in their belief system. I would loathe to rail against those of certain religions, but I will choose the Roman Catholics here exempli gratia:

It appears to me often that the average catholic parishioner holds to their faith for the sake of their faith; they accept the teaching of their papacy on word alone for that is the sustenance of their faith. I find it difficult to explain exactly, but it seems that their faith is in faith.

Christianity, in a truer sense is a relationship budding from faith in God. God is accepted, known, trusted in, and relied upon via faith. God is the object, faith is the avenue.

I’m not sure what I am trying to say exactly, but faith for the sake of faith or faith in faith, is nothing.



1. dorsey - January 16, 2007

This might sound odd, coming from me. Both are required.

There have been times in my life when I was stretched to a point that faith for the sake of faith was all I had. Certainly not a place to dwell permanantly (as many Roman Catholics appear to), but faith for faith’s sake can be a tether that enables us to find our way back to the object of our faith.

Does that make sense?

2. JP - January 16, 2007

I suppose it does make sense. Indeed.

3. theseldomscene - January 16, 2007

hey dorsey…it’s been a while…i still remember our last conversation…

catch you around…

4. theseldomscene - January 16, 2007

thought provoking post jp…

i am still reading the other post…the long one…

5. JP - January 16, 2007

It is a bit long, but I decided not to simply put in the scripture references, but to include the actual passages. I’m thinking that when someone puts in a scripture reference the people reading very rarely look up the passage to see what it says.

The trouble is that when your biblical references far outweigh what you are writing you end up with interminably long posts.

6. theseldomscene - January 16, 2007

but that is ok…in my opinion, it makes ones post more solid…if one writes out the verses for all to see…

i kow in dealing with some of our j.w. friends…that when i would look up their reference verses…often they had nothing to do with what was being discussed..lol…i guess they figured no one would look them up…or maybe it is the translations used…lol…

7. theseldomscene - January 17, 2007

ps…i will not be around much for a while…i have a few projects that must be worked on that i have let lay dormant for too long…see you around friend…you have my email address…don’t be a stranger…

8. JP - January 18, 2007

Do what you have to do, I’m not going anywhere (not that I know of anyway…)

9. Vincent X Shaw - October 20, 2010

A faith in faith is fideism, which is partly what circular reasoning is against, and so is Christianity in general because faith requires an object to trust. And eye can not look to itself, right?

The Fide Quae (the objective faith believed in) creates the Fide Qua (the personal faith believing in) and so both are necessary, but clearly one begets the other. Turning this around is confusing and creates a unfaithful Fide, a universalism that is not for all too believe in, a passive aggressive personal faith higher than the objective faith.

How do you know one is in the faith? Simply put, one looks to Christ. To look to self is sin, curving in oneself. Trust is extra nos, outside ourself. Therein lies the rub, we have absolute righteousness and joy that does not fail, because we look to author and perfector of our faith, the Alpha and the Omega, everything in between.

10. Gabriel - January 11, 2012

for us christian:
fides quae creditur – means the object of faith, the content of the revelation
fides qua creditur -means the faith with which you believe, the act of believing – receiving the revelation
Hope I’ve helped I am studying theology 😉

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